I tried multi level marketing before the internet existed. It is hard enough getting people to buy into your "scheme" face to face, online it is next to impossible. The schemes rely on personal relationships to grow. I was also unwilling to bug my friends and family until they think I am so irritating that they avoid me.

These companies want to have their cake and eat it too. They really don't want you to be successful. They just want to move their product.

If Arbonne's brand is so precious they shouldn't be devaluing it by using multi-level marketing.

I too am a Arbonne consultant. However, when you sign up for your account you do receive a "Policies and Procedures" manual that explains in great detail the do's and don'ts of internet advertising. It also explains about the websites that were grandfathered in prior to the rule change. As a former network marketer of another company that did not regulate their consultants websites, I can guarantee you that it is best for a company to restrict the websites allowed by their consultants. I appreciate the fact that Arbonne does make it a fair and equal playing field for all consultants. Yes, there are a few consultants that have their own personal websites. But, I've been around long enough to know some of the ones that have their own websites and know for a fact that they did not build their business by website alone. This is a people to people business and takes one on one contact to really be successful. Also, nobody is required to purchase a company website. Most of the people in my upline and on my team do not own a website. It is a personal choice and is offered to those that want one. I have had nothing but a positive experience with Arbonne and look forward to continued success!

First of all Joel, you missed the whole point of having the Arbonne web site. It is a convenient way for your customers to shop and to get referrals from Arbonne.It's not suppose to be a major marketing tool to grow your business. This company is one- on- one, face - to -face. And Pam April 12th was correct in pointing out that apparently you didn't read the rules and regulations. Everything you were complaining about is addressed in the policy manual and at the myarbonne site. Arbonne is about Swiss Skin care first and the opportunity to share that at a discount second. And a business third. It has to be a fit for you - you to be at a place in your life where you don't what to work for someone else anymore.To need that home - based busines for a tax write off or just to win a free vacation.It sounds like you were just looking for another way to make money on-line. Whoever sponsored you unfortunately did you a disservice by leading you to believe that Arbonne was the answer.Sounds like your wife likes the products and that's what Arbonne is about. Plus now you still get a discount so all isn't lost.
And Igor April 19 - sounds like you are in a cult now!
Donate major amounts of time and effort to the group - don't we do that in corp. america every day?
Uncritically accept its teachings - Heard of freedom of speech? There is no Arbonne god that will strike you down if you disagree or ask a question or choose not to do a presentation a certain way. The best thing about MLM's is that we are independent and have our own businesses. Get it?
Conform to their behavioral restrictions -
Let me tell you - I worked in a union grocery store for 18 years.You want to talk about restrictions!
Make a permanent commitment to remain involved in the company - Are you talking about Arbonne or some sick relationship you had? I don't know how having a choice to resign once a year for $15.00 to keep my wholesale account open can be misjudged as a pemanent commitment.
Please don't talk about a company that you obviously don't know the first thing about!People who don't like MLM's aren't going to understand because they aren't looking at it from the right angle. Have you every be in a rut for so long that you forgot what is was like to learn and grow and socialize with adults? Or to find a product that for the first time actually worked?! And then for a company to care about you sharing what you have found with a friend and then sends you a check? You might be on the lookout for the next get rich quick. That's not what it's about - I'm in it to better myself as a person and maybe to help some others along the way.Arbonne isn't a cult or a get rich quick. It's just a chance for some personal growth disguised as a lip-stick company. If you have a problem with that, then maybe you need some "personal growth" of your own!

I'm actually in the process of trying to decide if I want to be an Arbonne consultant or not. I've never tried MLM and have run the other way when any of my friends have invited me to any of their parties. I don't like people to pressure me to sponsor a party or give them names of 5 of my friends who might be interested in having a party. I went to an Arbonne meeting last week and was pretty impressed with the "business" aspect of it...I know it's growing very fast and I'm just wondering if I should catch the wave while it's still hot.

Joel -

Thanks for posting your story. I wanted to sell on ebay and online too, and researched first before I got into it. Thank goodness I found your page here, before I sunk any money into Arbonne. I have ZERO interest in the Party Plan of Arbonne, and the idea of MLM makes my skin crawl. But it is getting to be a popular product, and sells really well on ebay. There are a ton of people selling Arbonne on ebay, and I have to believe at least some of them have wholesale accounts and are selling against Arbonnes wishes. In fact, some have a disclaimer that says "Arbonne does not endorse products sold on Ebay" or something like that. Selling magazine subscriptions on ebay is also frowned on by the industry, but there are 1000 listings every day. I wouldn't order subscriptions any other way. I wonder how Arbonne tracks down sellers on ebay, and determines who is selling against policy? Not that I want to bother trying it now....

Arbonne seems to insist on that face to face selling aspect to sell product or sell the selling of product. That I can live with to an extent. I don't care for the multi-level marketing setup. I don't care what you call it, it is still a pyramid setup. The people down on the lower levels struggle to make money and do all of the true selling work. The higher you are in the organization the easier it is for you and the more money you make. I have met people that have invested thousand of dollars on simular setups only to have thousands of dollars of product in their garage that they cannot sell for enough money to make a profit. You can dress a pig in a suit but it is still a pig.

Arbonne is a good product, an expensive product, but still high quality. So is Amway, but they are well known for their unfair marketing setup. I want to trust in this product but I feel that they may want more to sell me product at wholesale prices than to help me earn my "Mercedes". I cannot blindly trust someone just because they tell me I should.

Just had to mention for all who are seeking info. you don't have to make a huge investment to work with Arbonne - Arbonne discourages frontloading, in otherwords, we don't buy products to sell... your customers will buy their products online (albeit through Arbonne's direct website or one approved by them) and they will be delivered directly to their door - as an Arbonne consultant you never have to stock up and then desperatly try to sell your stock - and you do not have to drive all over town dropping off product... much different from the other MLMs I've seen! So what if the website has to be approved by them?? You simply pass the url on to your customers and they log on with their Registration # and pin and shop away. Also - I used to work for an internet marketing company - to PROPERLY optimize your website for the search engines we used to charge thousands of dollars... to do it correctly - in light of that I think Arbonne's offer is a deal.

I am an Arbonne consultant and have been in the business for two years. I absolutely love both the products and the business. I have found that Arbonne always compensates their consultants generously and they always treat us fairly while educating us about the products. I have never heard Arbonne say that their products are all natural. On the other hand, I have heard confused consultants claim that Arbonne's products are all natural. Legally, they have to have preservatives in their prodcuts. They have always been up front about what is in their products. As for your website problem, I don't have a lot of input on that other than I personally have more success with meeting someone face to face. Because my friends want to help me succeed, they are always willing to help me meet new people. Ultimately your business depends on you and what you do with it. If want to succeed you won't let the little things get in your way.

You would all make much more money and "keep" your family and friends if you worked part-time at a cosmetic counter at a department store. Time is money and the time involved in selling this product, not to mention all the products and selling techniques videos they push you to buy....well, the money just doesn't add up. If you actually believe you are working for yourself, you are sadly mistaken. No need for negative comments regarding my lack of knowledge in Arbonne and how they run things. I'm very well versed in this area, as well as other MLM. If you can afford it, taking a business management course would give you a better direction and a better knowledge at how a real business is run.

Wow. A very business-like and professional response. By the way, it's "too bad" not "to bad." I'm sure you're smart enough to know that, however, and it was just a mistake on your part.

For those of you who are interested, Arbonne now has a FREE training site for registered consultants at www.arbonneuniversity.com.

Hi. Just read through most of these comments since I have some spare time which is getting more abundant as I grow my Arbonne business. Been with the company three years now and just earned my Mercedes CLK320 Convertible. I always heard and read (not from Arbonne by the way), give network marketing three to five years of truley putting in an effort. I love Arbonne! I always ran from network marketing but was so impressed with the products and the ingredients that I had to research this company very carefully. Was blown away by the integrity of the company later on. I WAS a Chem. Eng. and I make more money now than I did doing the other. I spend much less time doing this business obviously. Know many engineers working less than 40 hours a week? Yes it isn't easy to build an organization. It takes time, persistance and patience; but for me, it is so worth it. Getting to this level and helping the team move up is so much more than I imagined. Moving up the ladder is hard to do in corporate world especially if I have to wait for them to retire or they expire plus I get to pick who I get to work with! My family and friends don't hate me either. They are thrilled at my success and love the products too.

If I knew that being where I am now was this good, I would have put more effort and time (maybe 15 to 20 hours/week) to reached this point in my business sooner. I really don't put more than 10 hours a week into it. My children and family are far, far better for my efforts too. My spouse will be starting to build his own organization through Arbonne soon.

Those of you looking to sit behind a computer would do better at selling other stuff on ebay or watching your investment in the stock market. Me, I prefer to be with people, create some fantastic relationships and realize personal growth along with helping others. FYI - I use my website to send my clients to for information and setting up their own account, not to retail products. I could go on but I won't and some of you might be grateful that I didn't. He-he.

Someone mentioned a pyramid scheme. Draw out the structure of building a network marketing group were anyone on the bottom can get to the top and bypass those above if they work it hard enough. My organization doesn't look like a pyramid, it looks like a spider. However, draw out corporate America according to it's structure. CEO at the top, then VPs, then upper management, middle management, general employees, office staff etc. Looks like a triangle to me. Does anyone get to move up from the mailroom to the top whether those above them want them to or not? Corporate America paid me well but I still traded time for money. May be some of those who have posted comments don't know and should that in a pyramid scheme no product changes hands, it's illegal and that a company operating on those conditions would be out of business by the feds in a heartbeat. Arbonne has been around for 25 years and debt free at that. Probably a little more security than what corporate America offers. My father worked forty-three years, more than forty hours a week, and they retired him at 40% less because they did a mini-Enron before Enron.

I never frontloaded product and no one on the team has ever implied that a consultant should do so. In fact, we are strongly discouraged to do so. We only purchase personal use products and just enough product to be tooled for building a business which depends on your reach methods. Personally, I do believe you should make a descent investment in the tools you will need according to the reach out methods you choose. I don't believe you will make upper management just by getting a $29.00 account membership and don't know anyone who has done so. Just like any business, you need to purchase the tools to be successful and work. The client's product is ordered and shipped directly to the client through Arbonne's main website or approved Arbonne website such as mine. Rarely do I deliver product.

For those of you looking to make a difference in the health and wealth of others I can't say enough about the potential of Arbonne. It is a vehicle that can be used to help others and attain time and financial freedom as well as just make a little extra money. It is up to the individual and your effort. There are no guarantees. Well, actually, there is a 45 day money back guarantee on product.

I would be glad to answer any questions about building a business with Arbonne.

Take it for what it's worth... In addition to really doing some due diligence on the company, choose your upline manager's well. Are they successful (Is the person who sponsored them in upper management, and the person who sponsored them, etc... successful), do they support the team, check out their trainings and group meetings and what is their preferred reachout method? Some love home parties, some love sample & follow up and some love one on ones. Choose an upline that helps you find your fit, helps you grow as you go and stays connected even after training. Go meet the team!

The only training I have paid for is by my choice (not promoted by Arbonne) and deals with personal growth and leadership. Highly recommend John Maxwell's leadership and teamwork programs.

Wishing everyone personal growth, prosperity and time freedom whether you jump on the Arbonne opportunity or choose another. Those who choose not to educate themselves on network marketing may be wise to read Rich Dad Poor Dad or something from Robert Kiosaki's collections.

Sure counting my blessings everyday!

Wow....Joal...I hate to say it but you're a moron. Geez..all of your "arguments" are easily debunked...so folks...don't listen to him. My wife is a National Vice President with Arbonne. We've been with them for only two years and her monthly income is over $25,000 and growing. This business is exploding! And by the way...we don't do "parties" and we don't need whatever little bit you could make off of ebay. EBAY!? ...come on. Who has time to bother with it. I'm too busy being on the golf course! Friends...if you're reading this and wanting financial freedom...get aboard NOW! Email me and I'll explain how easy this business is..how legitimate it is and how much fun it is.

Are you people insane? Nobody is making $25,000 a month selling cosmetics. To make that much money, you'd have to be grossing $100,000 of sales a month, more or less, and I doubt that Dave or anybody else has that many friends who want to buy bogus "Formulated in Switzerland" skin products. Take a look at the label if you want an idea of how bogus Arbonne is: It says "Swiss" and "Suisse" all over it, but when you get to the fine print, it's not really Swiss at all, it's simply "Formulated" (whatever that means - it's left purposefully vague) in Switzerland. The name "Arbonne" may sound Swiss, but Arbonne is a village in the Pyrenees in south-western France and is nowhere near Switzerland. If you're a dishonest huckster and don't mind getting people to overpay for a dishonest product, or if you have no qualms about exploiting the labors of those who come below you in the pyramid scheme, then Arbonne is for you. Otherwise, get a real job and leave the rest of us alone.

Wow...I'm simply amazed at the ignorance that is thrown around as "wisdom" and "fact". Mr. "Get Real", I'm sorry, but you're just flat out wrong. You're creating your own fiction and deciding to call it "fact" no matter the evidence to the contrary. I'm not sure why such hostility but I'll try to quickly answer Get Real's comments.

First, "Formulated" means, developed, created and then tested to make sure it's safe and that it works. And then it's manufactured in the USA. What's so hard about that? Many products today are not designed and developed in the same place they are manufactured. Callaway golf clubs are designed in California, but made in China. Is Callaway therefore a Chinese company?? And btw..nobody says Arbonne is from Arbonne FRANCE. The Arbonne Institute of Research and Development (AIRD), which you can see pictures of on the Arbonne website, is in Switzerland, specifically Sion, Switzerland. Nobody's trying to hide those facts. It's called "Swiss" because it's developed in Switzerland by mostly, European herbalists and chemists who use Swiss and European herbal and botanical principles in the approach to product formulation. But they are made in the USA and the company is based in California. NO SECRETS THERE!! Hey...the products work, and that's what counts. If you don't like the product...don't use it. My results were more than satisfactory and I have had skin problems since my teen years. If you doubt me, contact a consultant and ask for a sample or take advantage of the 45-day guarantee. Most people who try the products like them..A LOT. That's been our experience. What can I say?

As far as the money comments by Get Real, you're right, we don't sell $100,000 worth of product every month. We only personally sell about $2500, if that. But our organization, all the people under us, sell a total of $500,000 each month. And that number is growing so fast. We'll be a million dollar organization by October if not earlier. And I know people in Arbonne making over 6 figures monthly. My wife's checks are actually below average for an NVP...although she's a new NVP which is the main reason. And don't tell me the people who are making $100K plus per month are lying. I've been to there homes. It's real. I see how many people they've promoted and can do the math myself.

And frankly, nobody in Arbonne who has been successful is teaching that you can be successful and make big money by selling on ebay, or thru your website. It's about duplication. You teach others to sell a little bit, and they teach others to sell a little bit, and so forth, and you get a small commission on the total of everybody. Duplication is the name of the game. You can't do this business hiding in your home office. It takes work. It takes talking to people.

Because you've had a bad experience with another network marketing company, or because you weren't successful with Arbonne, doesn't mean it's not real or that others aren't successful.

There are three reasons people are not successful with Arbonne and none of them involve the company or the products. (But I'll agree that in some companies it might just be the products or the company. Not with Arbonne though.)

The first reason is the person just doesn't do anything. They sign up, buy some product but then don't get into the activity of selling it. They somehow think it will happen automatically.

The second reason is they don't follow the training. Then decide to find an "easier" way. Most of the time the "easier" way is not duplicatable, isn't effective and doesn't work. But instead of following the lead of the successful people and doing what THEY did, this type decide Arbonne doesn't work because their method didn't work. This is where you ebay and website people fall. No RVP or NVP got to that level with ebay or their website sales, but you think it's a fraud since those methods didn't work for you. The way to succeed is to find someone who's been successful and do what they're doing. There are over 500 RVPs and NVPs across the country. By next month there will be 600. They'll be happy to tell you how they did it. Go on the Arbonne website and read their stories. Everyone is there and they tell how they did it.

And the third reason people fail is they're just not likable. Other people don't like you, trust you or respect you, so they don't want to work with you. If you're negative, cynical, hostile, uncoachable and pessimistic you might fall into this catagory. I suggest you read Dale Carnagie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and begin to work on yourself. Because you'll not only fail at Arbonne, you'll fail in many other areas too that involve relationships.

Bottom line success in Arbonne is real if you do three things. Get into activity and stay in activity. Duplicate what successful people are doing. And be the kind of person others will want to follow. It's not complicated, but for many it's very hard. And I'm sorry for those who find this recipe hard. I hope you can find the inner strength that it takes to change yourself so it becomes easier and you find success in whatever you do.

Personally, I don't care if Get Real or Joel, or any other negative or skeptical person who posts here ever finds success. But I do care if their attitude drags someone else down who otherwise could find success with Arbonne. Our experience has been life changing and extremely rewarding. The timing is now. So don't wait. Contact me if you need more info.

Dave

Okay..quick comments to finish with Get Reals post. Cosmetics is a trillion dollar industry worldwide. What do you mean nobody is making money selling cosmetics??? Wow, check the revenues of your major cosmetic companies.

Next, nobody is being dishonest, or a huckster. You need proof? I'll print out our last year's statement and you can see our monthly override checks. But yeah...because we did it, doesn't mean you can. I'll agree with that for the reasons I meantioned above.

As far as over priced goes...you're wrong there too. Compare prices of Arbonne to Lancomb or Clinique and our retail prices are comparable or cheaper. Take off the 35%+ discount and they're a bargain compared to department store cosmetic counter competitors.

As far as the pyramid scheme thing...If I had a real job, where would I be in THAT pyramid? And what are my chances of getting to the top? In my Arbonne business I'm at the top of my organization and anyone in my organization is at the top of their's. We all have equal opportunity to reach the top pay level because it's based on productivity. Not luck, or politics or being liked by the boss or by hoping the person above you quits, gets fired or dies. When we joined Arbonne there were 33 NVPs. Now there are over 100. Did General Motors add 70 Presidents to THEIR pyramid last year? Something to think about.

After being with Arbonne for two months, 5 parties and lots of samples later, what do I get?? ZERO sales!! Nuthin', Nada, Zilch! I tried their weight loss program and gained 7 lbs in 2 weeks. I love their skin care, but Arbonne is not meant to be.

I'm going to the gym with the Figure 8 money that I was setting aside for. I get free childcare too. Definitely more worth it than Arbonne.

Wow - I am a new consultant with the puppy dog program - I am excited - I know that it works (both the product & the program) - I, too, have fears (that is what it is) that everyone I know & love will think "oh no - I hope she doesn't talk about Arbonne again". That being said - I am willing to put in the effort & work and really want it to happen. I am using this website as a referral for my friends who are thinking about becoming a consultant. This way they can see both sides and hopefully see the fear and negativity which prompted some to fail... and courage that others had to succeed and I mean SUCCEED!!!

I'm confused a bit... Arbonne is an expensive product... only people with a decent amount of money can afford it... so, most are people who are reasonably bright, at least... you are directed to your consultant's website for actual purchasing... Arbonne offers on their website a $29 "membership" that gets you those expensive products at 35% off... you'll pay for the membership instantly... who in their right mind would pay more?!?

And if we're selling to our friends and family, then surely we'd let them know about the 35% off deal. Right?

So, 35% margin will only happen when selling to morons that you don't like too much, right?

I have to say dave you have posted some of the best comments in here! I too am district manager and area by next month that 3 months total to be making 3k a month i think thats not too shabby. I was wondering if you and your wife did the puppy dog system to grow your buisness? I also was wondering if all of you new consultants new who acutally started the puppy dog way? Their names are Jerry and Rachelle nichols. They started it in oklahoma and brought to arizona where it is just booming. I owe my whole success to them for creating this amazing new way of doing the buisness. I think he gets left out and not everyone knows his amazing story. It is because of him that i am going to be getting my car in september this year that is 5 months from start to finish. To all of you skeptics out there you cant knock something if you havent tried it. Rich dad Poor Dad is the best book i have ever read i recommend it to every person especially you fellow arbonnians :) Good luck to all of you out there and thanks Dave for you awesome insight!

Once again, I would ask the scam artists to please stop preying on the credulous and the desperate. The puppy dog system is a pyramid scheme, pure and simple. You pay $1,500 or so for four kits, get four gullible friends to take them and then sign up to buy another $1,500 worth of kits, and then you earn money on your friends' purchases. The catch - and there's always a catch - is that you have to buy $70 or so of products EVERY MONTH in order to earn "upstream" revenues. So the pyramid scheme only works when 1) you're wasting your family's money on buying Arbonne's bogus, new age cosmestics; and 2) the people you're preying on downstream are also buying the products. But sooner or later the house of card falls apart, because the people at the very bottom eventually realize they're on the bottom and can't find anybody to scam into the pyramid, and they stop buying the products. The people one rung up from them then stop buying the products, because they don't have anyone beneath them sending revenue upstream anymore, and pretty soon everyone realizes it's a scam and stops paying high prices for lotions in Arbonne's pretty bottles. If you get in at the top, you've already made a pretty penny, but if you're at the middle or the bottom you lose, and all your supposed friends who claimed they would change your life have exploited you to take money away from you and your family.

Now I know that the Arbonne people on this web site are going to sceam at me for being "negative", but that's exactly right - I have a negative opinion of anyone who, just to make a quick buck, would try to scam their friends and family into a pyramid scheme where those at the bottom of the scheme are guaranteed to lose money. You may have convinced yourselves that this is a "life changing" company, but it's not. It's a pyramid scheme, and anyone who participates in it should be ashamed of themselves.

Joel, You are welcome to join our yahoo club called mlmsurvivorsclub. You can find it also on the www.mlmsurvivor.com website. I have been involved in a few mlm's and party plans and the mlm's are the worst as far as deception goes (by the higher ups). We have lost thousands of dollars chasing a "dream" of making it in an mlm that has never paid out the way they promise. I wish you the best! Stay away from mlm's!! -Jennifer

Hi! I, too signed up as an Arbonne consultant, but have not "acted" on it, because I could not host any classes. Now, with the puppy dog system it is doable. However, I have questions regarding the income. My friend who signed me up won't answer my questions regarding how much she makes, so I thought I try this forum instead. If I invest the time and the money, I would like to know if it's worth it. The overrides are a bit confusing. Seems to me that if you are a DM, and your retail volume is say $5K, you only get 8% off of the 65% override volume ($3250), which equals $260. My friend is qualifying for AM this month, so if she has a RV of $10K, that means she only makes $520, correct? That sounds like peanuts to me and not the thousands of dollars people are claiming to make. It seems Dave lives in a high-income area, which we don't. Can anybody give me some real incomes of DM's and AM's or even consultants? Also, how much RV do I have to have to make say $800 per month? Thanks!

First Andrea...

Yes, your math is correct. You'd get an override of $260. But if you had 5 signups in that month you'd also get the DM bonus of $200. If you had any of your signups go with the RSVP order you'd get $50 for each of those. Your friend at Area would make the $520 plus her DM bonus as well if she had $5000 in her District and 5 signups for a total of $720 plus any RSVP bonuses. Once she gets to Area that same volume would get her an additional $390. So if $800 a month is what you're after, get to Area and you'll have it. No one makes big pay checks at District. It's a building process like any other business. (I'm sure that Bill Gates makes a bigger paycheck today than he did the first year Microsoft was founded.) It may not seem like much at first, but I'd bet if you figure out the hourly wage it would be equal, if not better, than working at Walmart or almost any parttime job.

Your friend however should be willing to tell you what her last override check was. Also, if you got to the Arbonne web site you will find a section listing the average bonus and override payouts per quarter at each level.

Now to Ed..
Come on Ed....do you really think Arbonne is trying to pull something over on us? I'm sure there's an explanation. At NTC this year they had a slide show of the place. There have been National Vice Presidents who have visited it. I'm asking myself, and getting no answer, "what would be the purpose, what motive, or how would this benefit the bottom line of the company, to talk about a place that doesn't exist?" And how would they get all these NVPs who have gone there to get on board with keeping up the illusion?? I don't know what the rules are in Switzerland about business listings, but it's not a retail store. The don't need to advertise. It's a private research laboratory. Only the people who work there need to know where it is.

This kind of reminds me of the Beanie Baby craze 8 or 9 years ago where there were all these stories of people unable to find where Ty, the manufacturer, was located, like there was some big conspiracy. Reporters were all over the Chicago area asking people where this Ty company was located and nobody knew. They weren't in the phone book either. hmmmmmmm...interesting.

Yes Ed, your question is simple enough...but irrelevant don’t you think? Unless you’re accusing Arbonne of fabricating a story about a fictional research laboratory, what difference does it make if the place is or isn’t listed in the phone book? But I guess that’s what you’re doing so that’s why it matters what is on your mind. The explanation is surely a simple one as I said, but is it really worth spending time on it? There's not one good reason to make such a story up. The suggestion is simply ludicrous.

So if I take you up on your suggestion, Ed, that I "prove you wrong"....what will that accomplish for you personally? Are you losing sleep at night? Are you needing therapy because of this question? Are you afraid that your uncertainty will cause undue harm to someone? I don't get why this is such a burning question for you. You really believe that a 25 year old company would be perpetrating a fraud so they could sell more product with the “Swiss” name on it and that after 25 years of a spotless record YOU are the first person to figure this caper out and report on it? It’s just silly, sorry to say. So if I provide an address, or an explanation for your inability to track down this international conspiracy, what do I get in return? An apology? You see it’s not worth my time to bother. I know individuals who have been there and they have no reason to lie. I’ve seen their pictures. Up until recently the pictures of NVP Jeanne Sterner’s visit were right on the Arbonne website. It’s such a moot point I can’t believe I’m even commenting on it!

Joel, it's interesting I found your blog today on this topic! I was looking at my hits to my blog where I also discussed this topic. My time is up as of July 4, 2005, and I completely agree with the frustration you have experienced trying to sell online. I have also noticed that some consultants could do things to advertise online and others are not allowed to do so. Replicated sites are worthless in the search engines, whether we pay $39 or not to promote them. I got www.ShareSkinCare.com to promote it so I wouldn't have the product name online. It's just God telling me to stick with my artwork :) and not get tempted by any more direct sales...so I'm going to listen to Him this time! (if you check out shareskincare.com you will see I have removed any promotion from there, and when the time is up, I am going to forward the link to my art site).

I'm sorry I had lost touch with you, I am still interested in doing some art for you if you are interested, please contact me. Sorry we lost touch somehow.

Ed- So glad someone else has had the same doubts about Arbonne's supposed Swiss-ness. I called the Registre de Commerce (Business Registry) in Sion, Switzerland (+41 27 322 92 05), and the officials there say there is no "Arbonne" registered in the Canton of Valais, nor have they ever heard of anything named "Arbonne". Sion is a town of just under 20,000 people, so if there were in fact an "Arbonne Institute of Research & Development" in Sion, Switzerland (As Dave, the guy whose wife supposedly makes $25k a month, claims in the post above), you would think that the Business Registry would at least have heard of the place. I, too, have asked Arbonne, Inc. for more details on the "Arbonne Institute of Research & Development", and they have avoided the request. This just seems like one more reason to avoid the company altogether.

I'll supply an address, Ed, or at least a description of the location if I can. Frankly, I've never been there so I can't tell you first hand where to find it. I'm sure it's not a huge place. There's probably only 10 or 12 employees. I have written to one of the NVPs who has been there, and by the way, has a picture of her standing in front of the place on her Eye On Arbonne. (EOAs are printed success stories from VPs) However, since I'm so confident the place exists and since your are adamant that it doesn't...so much so that you now have "Get Real" piling on....I'm tempted to suggest a little wager. How much can you afford to lose??

Hi Dave,
There is no need for a bet, I have good faith in you, if the place exists you will come up with an address and phone number. I have no complaint about Arbonne products and it seems MLM marketing schemes are here to stay in spite of what I think of them.
My point is, if...and I say IF, a company is going to plaster the Swiss flag all over their products and claim that they are formulated in Switzerland in their research laboratory and the whole thing turns out to be a fabrication then I think that would speak volumes about the scruples of the people that are running the company, don't you?

Hi Dave,
I have also found the address and phone number of Pierre Bottiglieri. I have a call into SCC which according to Arbonne is the organization he is supposed to be president of (he is not the president by the way) and he is supposed to call me back....so far there has been no reply. I will let you know the moment I hear something.
Regards, Ed

Hi Ed,
At this point I think I have the story straight and I will admit that I was under a misconception about AIRD. But having said that, I don’t think that the truth about AIRD can in anyway be considered an example of deceit or lying on the part of Arbonne. The whole explanation and history would take far too much space here to go into and would be pretty useless, but I’ll try to share enough of what I’ve learned to satisfy your inquiry.

First, you’re right in the sense that AIRD does not exist as a specific place. At least not yet. That is certainly a misconception on my part, but I must add, that misconception wasn’t really because of anything Arbonne actually said or states in any literature. I misinterpreted information and made a conclusion without all the facts. The pictures I saw were of the facility that, at the time, had been set aside to work exclusively on Arbonne products, and not owned by Arbonne. I’m actually grateful to you for allowing me the opportunity to clear this up in my own understanding.

In essence, AIRD historically has been a team of professional chemists, herbalists and master skin care professionals who are coordinated by Arbonne to develop the ideas and science needed to create Arbonne products. In the early days many of these researchers including Pierre, were indeed part of Arval, whose owner was a friend of Arbonne’s founder. In recent years, Arbonne’s team has employed several labs throughout Switzerland to take the ideas of the AIRD team, create the formulations, do the testing, and turn them into the products Arbonne then manufacturers in California.

Also, as Arbonne grows, the concept of AIRD is also continuing to evolve. Pierre is now working in a temporary lab devoted solely to Arbonne product research as Arbonne is, in fact, in the process of being registered globally. Additionally, AIRD will soon include chemists from several other countries to contribute to product development and will have their own facility to formulate, test and even manufacture Arbonne products.

I hope this clears it up to your satisfaction and I apologize for my errors.

Hi All...
(Off the subject of AIRD) I had a baby 6 weeks ago and wasn't sure I'd be able to stay at home with her. But I am having major success with this business and not only will I be able to stay at home with her, but I am going over and beyond what my corporate job paid me. I was going through the motions of my day-to-day job, seeing the same people everyday, going to the same meetings, sitting in the same break room, working the same hours, driving the same roads, getting the same paychecks (even though my work-load was getting bigger). I have always been shy but have wanted to make a change and meet new folks. This business has forced me to come out of my shell and meet new friends and I am having the best time of my life in addition to making money! Arbonne is a lifestyle! It is a life-altering product as well as business opportunity. I never knew I could have so much fun while bringing in income.
To all you new consultants like me... don't give up! It may take a couple of no-show parties but ultimately you will get there! Don't get discouraged by these folks on here who didn't give it much of a chance.
thanks...serra in california

Ed…
I don’t know what to tell you at this point. It’s a matter of how you interpret the information you have. I can agree that the letter you say you received from Arbonne would lead you to believe they own their own lab. But it doesn’t actually say that. It also doesn’t say AIRD is a building. If AIRD is a team of Arbonne coordinated researchers, it could just mean they conduct their business in Sion. Personally, understanding what I know now, I think the letter is factually correct. But I agree it could be misconstrued. As far as the quotes from consultant web sites go, this is a prime example of why Arbonne needs to be so strict with upholding the rules of what a consultant can claim, where and how they can advertise and what kinds of documents they attach the Arbonne logo to. Even Joel’s opening sentence on this board is factually wrong. Arbonne does not now, nor have they ever, advertised their products as “All Natural”. But someone hears it said and passes it along and it suddenly is considered a “fact”.

Bottom line is this: Arbonne products are indeed formulated, tested and perfected in Switzerland by Swiss and European researchers in Swiss laboratories and then manufactured in the U.S. and distributed by independent consultants throughout the U.S. and Canada. Arbonne products incorporate the latest science and technology and the highest quality ingredients to create products that are pure, safe and beneficial to the end user. There are literally hundreds of thousands of satisfied customers who would attest to that.

I realize that I can’t change your mind if you’re so down on Network Marketing so I’m not going to continue with this specific conversation. (And admit that it’s network marketing that you’re against because if Arbonne products were sitting on a shelf in your local salon you would have no interest in scrutinizing them as you are.) All I can say is I love the products and would use then even if I wasn’t in the business. As Arbonne continues to expand and their sales continue to explode it is only a matter of time before Arbonne is a household name like Mary Kay or Pampered Chef. Those who join this business have a great opportunity to build a fabulous income and lifestyle. Right now I’m sitting here looking out the window at my wife’s E-320 and my brand new SUV and I’m deciding if I should play golf today, even though it’s a bit cloudy. I couldn’t do that two years ago.

Dave,
If I tell you "I have my own private castle in France" what does that mean to you?

To me, Arbonne's intent is crystal clear... and to me, their intent is deception. As I have said before, I have no complaint against their products because I have only used one or two and I could not possibly form an opinion based on that small amount of exposure.

Additionally, I have no complaint against the fact that they use network marketing to sell their product. Whatever I may think of that type of marketing, it is a legal reality and certainly here to stay.

My whole problem is that Arbonne represents themselves as a Swiss company with a laboratory in Switzerland and that is simply not the case.

By the way, for nearly three years I have hosted a forum here in Switzerland called “The Swiss Consumers Forum” to give people living in Switzerland a place to discuss things like this. I would like to invite you to join because the conversation about Arbonne is starting to heat up over there too. Your insight would lend some balance to the conversation.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/swissconsumersforum/

Regards, Ed

PS:
As for your wife’s Mercedes and your SUV...Congratulations!

Hi Claire, feel free to email me and I'll pass along my thoughts regarding your request.

Ed, I guess we'll just have to disagree on this because you’re seeing it different than I am. I don’t interpret the “Suisse” on the bottle or the “Formulated in Switzerland” to mean it’s a Swiss company. It’s not a Swiss company. It’s owned by primarily by an American investment company and managed by mostly Americans. The company was founded in Europe by a Norwegian, Petter MØrck, and his son, Stian, has a predominant role in running the company now that the founder has basically retired. Arbonne does not advertise itself as Swiss company. They advertise their products as being formulated in Switzerland, which is true, using herbal and botanical formulations that are based on Swiss and European principles and methods. To the cynic it might sound like a marketing ploy, but it is really a statement of philosophy and an indicator of the kind of product it is. For example, most U.S. cosmetic companies use mineral oil as the base of their lotions. You won’t find a Swiss skin care, of any kind, using mineral oil. The Swiss thinking is that mineral oil isn’t good for your skin. When you see “Swiss” it simply means the product, formulated in Switzerland, conforms to Swiss standards. How can it be any clearer?

P.S. I think we're worn this one out. If you agree with Ed, then don't do Arbonne, don't buy the product and keep doing what you're doing and getting what you're getting. It doesn't matter. If you can comprehend the meaning of "Swiss" then I'm sure you're tired of this, as I am.

Aloha,

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Mahalo,
Shonna
Independent Consultant

Joel ~

Arbonne International promotes its marketing as 'network' rather than multi-level. There is a difference and my wife and I are glad there is. Network marketing means that you're not pushing someone else up the rungs. You can pass them up on the ladder to financial success, earn your bonuses and goodies along the way, and continue sharing the business opportunity with others who can do the same (including 'pass you on their way up').

This is an important difference because it allows a more lucrative program - only four levels of management in Arbonne's case. And that's one of the most attractive features of being involved with Arbonne. It's 'multi-level' that's given home-based business efforts a bad name - someone's always pushing you to produce as they realize more income from your hard work. Some programs are so top-heavy that all you'll ever see is other people's butt ... you'll never have the opportunity offered by Arbonne to 'make it to the top,' 'go to the beach,' whatever you want to call your desired level of success.

We have a my.arbonne website and are happy to refer our prospective consultants/business builders to it. We have it to show a level of professionalism and expand our ability to communicate with a greater number of prospects. We never intended to make a business of marketing product over the Internet. Imagine, if you will, thousands of wanna-be business gurus clamoring over themeselves with website presence, hoping for a piece of the pie. That's not the kind of business we want to 'enjoy.'

Arbonne is first driven by sharing the business opportunity. The products virtually speak for themselves. It's the personal testimonies of people who use Arbonne products that bring more sales consultants into the fold. The integrity of the brand and the ethical business practices of the growing thousands of consultants will continue to make Arbonne the envy of the network marketing industry.

Thanks for being there.

Dave Smith

Dear Joel, I just signed up as an Arbonne consultant and received my first order. My complaints are basic. There were no instructions (except on each item) on how to use the stuff; there is no good way to determine the best tints for a customer; there is no return item slip in the box. In fact I had to stay on hold 33 minutes before I talked to someone re my order. My upline person lives far from me and I have to pay for long distance to talk with her. Dotti

At this link I have shared my personal thoughts on this.

Hey Junkman...think what you want. Everything I said here is true and I'm not a "plant" for the company, but then it doesn't matter, small minded people think what they want regardless of the facts. I hope your girlfriend makes the right decision, whatever that is, and doesn't regret someday that she listened to you. You're what we call in this industry a "crab". Because you want to pull somebody down and keep them from escaping their situation and realizing their own dreams and desires, just like crabs to each other when thrown together in a bucket. I feel sorry for people like you, I really do. Your arrogance and attitude have probably not gotten you very far and they won't. Arbonne doesn't need you so please, feel very free to stay away.

Okay..Junkman…don’t post again and don’t respond. Make that a promise that we can hold you to. Please.

Your posts did nothing for the people who are sincerely trying to make a serious decision about their future or to elevate the nature of this discussion. I apologize to any reader who thought my original response to Junkman was too harsh.

The experiences I shared….those “slick” “Too many stories”..were to illustrate how experiences in other environments and businesses can be applied to understanding experiences in this business. So let me run down why I said about you what I said.

Your first post lacked any intelligent thought or appearance of knowledge as anything I’ve read on this thread. You labeled me a “plant” for the company as if to say I’m paid to sit here and respond to this kind of nonsense and to lie about the company so those really bad secrets you are sure exist don’t get out. You called me “slick” and untrustworthy when I’ve made it a point to spell out my experience with this company in an honest attempt to give people reading a sense of how to succeed; how WE succeeded. You referred to Joel as the author of comments that Ed made and you blathered on about coming up with your own mlm company and buying the same formulas that Arbonne buys..etc. Just plain sophomoric, uninformed waste of anybody’s time. You brought me into your condemnation of Arbonne in a way specifically intended to malign my efforts and my insights in the hope that you would influence readers to disregard anything I said.
I, my friend, was simply repaying the compliment. The tone was well deserved.

As far as your credentials, or mine, they have little to do with the concept of wisdom. Something you seem to have avoided in this endeavor. My satisfaction and reward in this business is not money. Anybody who has heard me train or speak know that. You can take my comment about my decision to leave radio for a higher paying job as being motivated by money, because I didn’t elaborate, but that wasn’t the whole story. The whole story was irrelevant to the point. Just like your degree and job experience is irrelevant to your advice to your girlfriend when you approach it from the view you have. Learn a little humility and comprehend the concept that without first hand knowledge about Arbonne and the people who manage the company and develop the products, you have little that you can offer to someone truly searching; except of course, your negative, condescending, insulting and utterly meaningless comments.